tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post4824004280209877736..comments2024-03-28T12:39:27.400-05:00Comments on One Poet's Notes: John Ashbery: "Forties Flick" (Contemporary Poetry Series)Edward Byrnehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09840825927726253150noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-31848633757352160592009-03-10T11:26:00.000-05:002009-03-10T11:26:00.000-05:00Thanks, Ed. And to Patrick for commenting on the e...Thanks, Ed. And to Patrick for commenting on the earlier post under Lowell. Yep, I fall within the date cutoffs of Ed's honor roll. Just outside them, along with Wilbur, is Howard Nemerov. Within it are Alvin Feinman, Marilyn Hacker, Sandra McPherson, Robert Pinsky, Grace Schulman, and Gary Soto.<BR/><BR/>I can't speak for others on the list, but, putting aside aspirations to Greatness (and accompanying ridicule), I'd settle for the Will Continue To Be Read category.Alfred Cornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08120701708290725662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-51787603788162244502009-03-09T18:36:00.000-05:002009-03-09T18:36:00.000-05:00//Many (if not most) of the poets on my list, some...//Many (if not most) of the poets on my list, some more than others, do write in meter, rhyme, and traditional forms, including Ashbery. John was my teacher, and he always emphasized poetry is not an either/or proposition.//<BR/><BR/>Hi Edward,<BR/><BR/>I don't think I implied that your list of poets didn't. And I don't see meter and rhyme and free verse as being in opposition. I'm not partisan on the subject, though I *do* have preferences. <BR/><BR/>Free verse is capable of great poetry.<BR/><BR/>Rephrase: My statement that I would focus on poets of meter and rhyme was not meant to be a criticism of your choices.<BR/><BR/>I saw Alfred's comment and responded. Orr's article and responses continues to fascinate me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-52957022933809238012009-03-09T14:18:00.000-05:002009-03-09T14:18:00.000-05:00Hi, Alfred:I based my arbitrary and obviously inco...Hi, Alfred:<BR/><BR/>I based my arbitrary and obviously incomplete list mostly upon the date of birth for those poets I knew had some influence and significant critical attention, which might translate to a type of "fame," but not the sort we were discussing I don't think. <BR/><BR/>Also, I was not suggesting "permanent value" for any individual. Indeed, in my previous post I recommended "caution against pronouncements of greatness about anybody, even those we may believe worthy and whom we widely admire among present-day poets, including a designation of John Ashbery as great by David Orr." That is why I commented upon honoring the "collective generation" rather than any individual.<BR/><BR/>By the way, I have only now discovered your birth date is 1943 and just barely fits at the edge of the artificial timetable I'd set; therefore, I will add your name to the list. If you have additional nominees you think I should consider, please let me know.Edward Byrnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09840825927726253150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-83777083275971688652009-03-09T12:47:00.000-05:002009-03-09T12:47:00.000-05:00This list seems too much based on fame (with a cou...This list seems too much based on fame (with a couple of exceptions). I wouldn't make that comment except that other posts and comments made on this blog have pointed out the unreliability of fame as a guide for permanent value. By the way, a comment I made several days ago in response to Patrick (on the Lowell and "greatness" blog entry) didn't get posted, so I went back and sent it in again.Alfred Cornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08120701708290725662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-47284260858241326172009-03-08T21:29:00.000-05:002009-03-08T21:29:00.000-05:00Thanks, Bruce. I think some of the examples will d...Thanks, Bruce. I think some of the examples will display clearly how their influence on one another and elsewhere changed poetry during the post-World War II period. I am thinking of Ginsberg, Lowell, and Snodgrass as one instance or Ashbery, Koch, and O'Hara as another. There are a number of others as well.<BR/><BR/>Patrick: Many (if not most) of the poets on my list, some more than others, do write in meter, rhyme, and traditional forms, including Ashbery. John was my teacher, and he always emphasized poetry is not an either/or proposition. You might check out the title poem from SOME TREES, which I cited in the post, as just one example for his use of rhyme:<BR/><BR/>http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/some-trees.htmlEdward Byrnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09840825927726253150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-59919186013319139592009-03-08T20:16:00.000-05:002009-03-08T20:16:00.000-05:00Good idea.Think I'll do the same thing at my own b...Good idea.<BR/><BR/>Think I'll do the same thing at my own blog - except to put the focus on Contemporary Poets who use meter and rhyme. <BR/><BR/>PatrickAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-16703736011170083702009-03-08T12:46:00.000-05:002009-03-08T12:46:00.000-05:00I am thrilled to see this: the Contemporary Poetry...I am thrilled to see this: the Contemporary Poetry Series. I am looking forward to your thoughts on these poets. If they were born between 1923 and 1943, it means they were probably writing between 1940 (assuming they started writing/published in their late teens/early twenties) and 2000, with much of their growing up actually occurring during WWII. And yet, I doubt much of their poetry will actually be about the war; poetry is very, very personal. It should be fascinating to watch. I wonder if you will be able to put their writing into context with other writers of this age; how much poetry changed during this period; etc.Bruce Oksolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10952652803684625738noreply@blogger.com