tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post5810326750672948330..comments2024-03-16T04:24:07.222-05:00Comments on One Poet's Notes: Theodore Roethke: "My Papa's Waltz"Edward Byrnehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09840825927726253150noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-18425287584251704862021-09-15T04:47:12.276-05:002021-09-15T04:47:12.276-05:00How did the mother responded in the poem?How did the mother responded in the poem?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15333989483974039371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-52116009325753564132018-06-19T06:02:59.865-05:002018-06-19T06:02:59.865-05:00I’d have to test with you here. Which isn't on...I’d have to test with you here. Which isn't one thing I often do! I take pleasure in reading a put up that will make individuals think. Additionally, thanks for permitting me to remark! <a href="https://online-casinos.us.org" rel="nofollow">online casinos</a>williambli92982https://www.blogger.com/profile/15741186151744259551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-63217173501872499732016-11-28T02:58:20.383-06:002016-11-28T02:58:20.383-06:00I didn't read all the comments, so forgive me ...I didn't read all the comments, so forgive me if this has been stated already. The subject of "scraped" is "right ear," not "buckle," which in fact is the direct object. The ear doing the scraping further weakens the abuse view. How something is stated does matter. I loved Mary's pointing out the "My" in the title. So easy to miss the implication! Thanks, Mary. Another thought: his mother's "countenance" being unable to "unfrown itself" implies, to me, that it would like to do so, but can't, as it's controlled by the mother's mind--in other words, her natural response would be to smile, but she feels she has to play the role of serious and disapproving parent--but it's only a role, a mask, which even the small-boy narrator picks up on.Gerritnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-16666814170461317782014-02-25T08:29:24.746-06:002014-02-25T08:29:24.746-06:00To "beat time" is a fixed expression in ...To "beat time" is a fixed expression in English meaning to measure or regulate time in music.<br /><br />http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=To+beat+time <br /><br />The papa does not beat the boy, he beats time (with his open palm) on the boy's head. There is no indication in the poem of the papa giving the son a "beating." In fact, if the English expression were "tapped time" instead of "beat time," the so-called evidence for abuse would be even weaker than that which some people read into the work...nowhere in the poem does the papa inflict pain on the boy, except accidentally when he misses a dance step. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-17835399237893066352013-02-26T19:55:23.623-06:002013-02-26T19:55:23.623-06:00I just read this for my lit class. What jumped out...I just read this for my lit class. What jumped out for me was the abuse part. But in addition to that was the child's need/want for a father figure albeit a drunken and abusive one. I believe at the end of the story, "Still clinging to your shirt." refers to his role as the father figure. A shirt is something you wear, just like the role of fatherhood. The boy needed that even if his father was abusive. <br />"You beat time on my head" means that this was a regular occurrence, presumably after his father had been drinking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-21155067378828209912012-04-03T15:08:38.722-05:002012-04-03T15:08:38.722-05:00I read this poem and saw abuse. I read it again a...I read this poem and saw abuse. I read it again and saw playful roughhousing with a decidedly blue collar (and definitely tipsy) father. Then back to the abuse, then back to the clumsy affection. It's very much like the optical illusion picture of the young stylish woman and the old crone; they are BOTH there, and while some of what we see reflects our inner landscape, the ambiguity was by design. To have accomplished this in four quick stanzas truly sets this work apart as masterful!Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-22680736208456376432012-01-09T22:22:53.242-06:002012-01-09T22:22:53.242-06:00I'm a current high school student, and I can s...I'm a current high school student, and I can say personally I read into the poem with the abuse mentioned here when I first read through it. Of course, I soon realized that wasn't what the poem was saying before I got here (which I technically shouldn't be Googling the poem anyways, but shh don't tell...I got it on my own =)<br /><br />I can almost guarantee half my AP Lit class took this poem into the abuse path - but I loved what was written here about the elegiac nature of it! I certainly saw the memories, and the feeling of fun and enjoyment despite the few hardships - what are memories without a little hurt anyways? - but I didn't see until now how the remembrance I read into could be taken as an elegy of sorts...thanks =)Lindsaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-64335831901951207382011-11-19T22:11:38.792-06:002011-11-19T22:11:38.792-06:00Continuing from above - my own husband was an alco...Continuing from above - my own husband was an alcoholic, and this brings back memories of him with our children. He was never abusive to them, but sometimes they would get bumped around just because he was drunk and clumsy. An earlier commenter uses the word "tension" and I think that describes it - I would be standing nearby, not wanting to interfere because the children (and my husband) were enjoying the roughhousing, but also watchful in case it got out of hand. Pleased that they were having this positive interaction, angry that here he is, just home ("from work", sure I've heard that story before) at bedtime, getting them worked up so they won't go to sleep, worried in case of a slip or gesture out of control. The mix of love and fear and joy and anger in even a non abusive alcoholic home is so complex and interdependent ... My feeling is that the poem deliberately invokes both the fun and the fear - it's not one or the other, but both.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-26840678787723538832011-11-19T21:55:40.964-06:002011-11-19T21:55:40.964-06:00The poem captures, I think, the pleasure and sligh...The poem captures, I think, the pleasure and slight trepidation felt by children when romping with a tipsy parent - mostly pleased at the holiday atmosphere, and a little wary at the possible clumsiness. Our modern take on child rearing is probably safer for children, and most likely better, but some ambiguity and complexity has been lost.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-40984126161928300752011-11-03T18:42:52.014-05:002011-11-03T18:42:52.014-05:00Interesting. A friend of mine was analyzing this p...Interesting. A friend of mine was analyzing this poem with her college literature class, and all of her classmates felt that it was about violence and abuse, yet I responded very differently. I feel as though the tone in this poem is overwhelmingly nostalgic. Roethke is looking back on a memory with his father, with fondness and sadness. I think that it is important to take into consideration the context of any piece of literature. Much of the intentions of this poem can be understood by knowing more about Roethke's background and his relationship with his father. While phrases such as "hung on like death" and "beat time on my head" do carry with them a sense of death and may evoke images of violence to certain people, I think that they convey more of a sense of urgency than anything else. Roethke wrote this poem after his father's death, who died when he was just fourteen years old, which explains the lingering presence of death in not only this poem, but in many of Roethke's other pieces. The overall tone of this piece is that of the love between a father and son in a fleeting moment remembered forever. Roethke had a good relationship with his father, and even use of the word "papa" in the poem's title implies a sense of love, as "papa" is often used as a term of endearment. His father worked in a greenhouse, which explains the dirt on his palms, and the whiskey on his breath certainly implies drunkenness, but not belligerence or violence. Words such as "romped" give a sense of playfulness and the use of the "waltz" and even "beat" give the poem a melodic rhythm similar to some of Roethke's other works.bstovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18254939211473809873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-50758173881380517602011-10-04T08:23:24.508-05:002011-10-04T08:23:24.508-05:00The first time I read it, my thoughts were of abus...The first time I read it, my thoughts were of abuse, because of my personal experience and my own papa's waltz. The fact that the mother seems not to interfere also could be of fear, those days woman had little voice and also subjected to abuse. My mother saw abuse in my house and I remember she didn't do much. Maybe the father faked playing with the kid when she was around, but then dragged him to bed when she turn her back. This poem is very good and can be interpreted in many ways. Kids at that age are very forgetful and playful in reference to the word "romped" and didn't understand till he was older that his papa was actually hurting him, but still he misses him and expresses afection for his papa "still clinging to his shirt like death".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-5599974565320675442011-09-21T22:34:41.732-05:002011-09-21T22:34:41.732-05:00I believe that this poem may or may not be about T...I believe that this poem may or may not be about Theodore Roethke's own childhood. I cannot personally say whether I think it is about an abusive father or just a nightly father and son "playtime". It is however clear that people agree that this poem is a good one no matter their interpretation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-7039304575008296692011-08-03T21:25:08.960-05:002011-08-03T21:25:08.960-05:00It is always the case that we bring our own lives ...It is always the case that we bring our own lives and experiences to the table when we read and interpret literature. I used to dance on my father's feet in the kitchen when I was this height (and he was also an alcoholic--though not abusive) and see this poem as a warm memory from childhood, as my similar memory is for me. Abused children (above) see an abusive subtext because the poignant and vivid childhood imagery so well-written by Mr. Roethke triggers their own childhood memories. My personal connection aside, intellectually, I agree with Mr. Byrne's analysis. The historical background and biographical information Mr. Byrne presents perfectly illustrate why we understand literary works far better when we study them within their own historical and cultural contexts than just read them on our own with our personal baggage as the main filter on our analysis. (I looked this up because, at a teacher professional development training today, our presenter told us that he's seen PhD'd professors argue the dual interpretations of this poem vehemently and uncompromisingly.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-20252105104309126532011-06-11T10:57:27.169-05:002011-06-11T10:57:27.169-05:00I don't think Roethke meant to portray his fat...I don't think Roethke meant to portray his father as an abusive man, but as many have pointed out,a hard working man "romping" with his son. My perspective as the former spouse of an alcoholic is that the poem is a window into the unpredictability of life with an alcoholic. Drunks can be fun, and many children adore their alcoholic parents, but the chaos and uncertainty deplicted in the poem are easy to understand if you live with alcoholics. Their intention may not be abuse, but often their behavior feels abusive to those around them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-57548222710050338302011-05-29T10:10:33.598-05:002011-05-29T10:10:33.598-05:00As a teacher of English and literature for almost ...As a teacher of English and literature for almost 30 years, I am fascinated by this discussion and the poem itself. I have to admit, that before reading this poem on this website a few days ago, I had never read it before. My first reaction was one of abuse, but after reading it several times I went the other way. I think it is a heartfelt homage to a father from his son. However, I can certainly see the other side as it was my first reaction. Very fascinating indeed!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-26042924828235755572010-10-30T01:13:31.292-05:002010-10-30T01:13:31.292-05:00I think that the poem is intended to be ambiguous,...I think that the poem is intended to be ambiguous, although I lean towards the interpretation of abuse. For a child so young he only reaches his father's belt buckle, his parents are all he knows. Just because a child is being abused by a parent doesn't mean that they don't love them and hold reverance for them; young child don't often understand that their home life differs from others. And keeping the time frame in mind, it was considered perfectly acceptable for a father to administer physical punishment, making it hard to determine where the line is drawn between discipline and abuse.<br /><br />It's not the "whiskey on his breath" that I think is most incriminating. It's the lines "The hand that held my wrist / Was battered on one knuckle[.]" Why is the father holding his son's wrist, not his hand? Grabbing someone's wrist is very often a gesture of violence. And why did Roethke choose specifically the knuckle? He must have been aware that battered knuckles are also associated with violence. If he intended the poem to be perfectly innocuous, why did he consistently use terms that conjure up violent imagery?<br /><br />As for the mother not interfering, as a poster above mentioned, a lot of women in abusive relationships feel helpless to stop it. This is true even today, and I imagine it would be been exceptionally more so in the early 1900s, when the societal expectation was that a woman would conform to her husband's "better judgment". <br /><br />I really need to be to bed.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-56090205473246611092010-08-26T02:02:29.433-05:002010-08-26T02:02:29.433-05:00so wha does he mean by I hung on like death? And w...so wha does he mean by I hung on like death? And what does the image of a waltz symbolize?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-34172607197127544452010-08-24T10:22:41.653-05:002010-08-24T10:22:41.653-05:00As I am the child of an alcoholic father, this poe...As I am the child of an alcoholic father, this poem speaks to me of the complex, almost indefinable feelings a child has for their fallible parent. At an early age, I knew when my father was drunk. And his mood when he was drunk was one of two things: anger or effusive love. And I often saw one switch to the other without notice. I say this because this is what I see in "My Papa's Waltz." The narrator, the child, clearly states that his father has been drinking--whiskey. On the surface it looks as if the father and son are having fun while they waltz, but there are so many terms that inject an uneasy tone: hung on, death, not easy, battered, knuckle, scraped, buckle, beat. It is hard to relax while reading this poem. One woman whose comments I read criticized people for misreading this poem by way of saying that if the father were abusing the child that the mother would not have just stood there and let it happen. To that I say, she must not have been raised in an abusive household. Quite frankly, the only words that keep one from seeing this as a scene of a beating are the words "waltzing" and "romped." In the end, I see this as a child roughhousing with his drunken father, but I see too that there is a tension not too far beneath the surface and a fear of the unpredictablity of his fahter--two words different and this would be a different poem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-70950860147044143662010-07-29T18:45:24.441-05:002010-07-29T18:45:24.441-05:00Being new to poetry; I too jumped to an abusive co...Being new to poetry; I too jumped to an abusive conclusion. It was my husband Steve who questioned the fact that maybe, just maybe he and his hard working father were just horsing around.Kathleen Healynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-30896965967346352222010-02-11T01:47:50.460-06:002010-02-11T01:47:50.460-06:00OMG i m turkish and our turkish teacher read it to...OMG i m turkish and our turkish teacher read it to us and so beautiful poem that s so nice i cant say anything .....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-10550980120372531142010-02-09T20:29:09.575-06:002010-02-09T20:29:09.575-06:00We recently just went over this poem in class and ...We recently just went over this poem in class and we had to express our opinions and all the students in my class agreed that it was abbusive and they were very firm with thier anwers. When i read it i did not think of of it as abusive. I was actually sort of embaressed to read ha i wrote as my opinion because i truly thought it was a specal realtionship between father and sonUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06671570636222339866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-88572848732694662372009-11-14T13:17:50.038-06:002009-11-14T13:17:50.038-06:00I just read this poem for my Literature class. I ...I just read this poem for my Literature class. I read it and wrote a paper on it, before resaerching it. When I read another students interpretation I was shocked. He thought this was about child abuse. It thought it so very neat that two people could have two totally opposite views. I thought it was about a Father's love. After that realization I decided to look on the web to see what others thought. And it seems to be the norm that half think of love and half think of abuse. This is so interesting to me! Very cool, thanks for leaving all your comments! -NikkiUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03633585536193196127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-42359610999249827182009-10-25T14:47:30.314-05:002009-10-25T14:47:30.314-05:00Um, two generations ago, "waltzing" a ch...Um, two generations ago, "waltzing" a child "off to bed" was a widely-recognized bit of familial fun. In a hard-headed Dutchman's physical parlance, it might be the only [friendly] contact between a father and his children. The child places his feet on the father's, and the father dances a step too intricate for the child to have learned. Alcohol may have been a factor (Michigan's state motto).<br /><br />When I first encountered the New Age mouths-agape incomprehension of this poem (at Bowling Green, in the early 70's, all I could say was "You're not from Michigan, are you?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-23423062400284783662009-09-24T08:34:22.232-05:002009-09-24T08:34:22.232-05:00While I certainly do not object to the majority in...While I certainly do not object to the majority interpretation of this poem, I can clearly see the abuse angle of the reading. Abused children still love their parents; they depend on them and forgive them over and over. A waltz could certainly be a term used, in a coded way, to talk about a beating. Children, especially between siblings, have terms they used together; my brothers and I called it dancing. Before our beating, we struggled and held on for fear of falling while we were lifted off the ground and bounced against the walls. Off to bed meant he was done with you, give up and hang on. When I read this poem, I took it as the weekly beating, not a happy time. I hope this is not what the author lived through; no one should be treated that way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-746549356331646438.post-86114860113429478472009-09-17T12:23:15.740-05:002009-09-17T12:23:15.740-05:00I am an avid poet reader and I love to write poems...I am an avid poet reader and I love to write poems. It's something I do in my free time and I write things taht have happened to me in my childhood, much like Roethke does in "My Papa's Waltz"Ms. Smileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829242131022622159noreply@blogger.com